c#205 CIV3`S NOT SO GREAT LEAP FORWARD

[lorddread]

civ3 et al

Originally posted by Rear Admiral
I agree with 99% of your critique of Civ3. The game has devolved from Civ2 by becoming simply tedious. I don't sense that I have any ability to achieve control over the outcome after some 100 hours of playing Civ3 at difficulty levels up through Monarch -- the AI simply cheats faster than I can counter it. I have found the best answer is to use the game editor to design your own game and ignore the standard one. Even so, I find that I am continuing to play Civ2 at very nearly the same rate as before Civ3 came out.

I like CTP better than civ2

[Tamerlin]

Hi everybody,

My main critic about Civ3 is not about the rules or concepts, they are what they are and a game can be fun even if some rules or concepts do not fit your taste. Civ3 belongs to the simulation game family which means it simulates something and have to make some choices. We like them or we don't.

What I don't like is the way the AI civs are playing, or as I have wrote earlier how they are cheating. A rule we don't like can easily be accepted when all the players have to obey to this rule which obviously isn't the case of the AI civs.

I don't like the choices made by Firaxis and won't play unmodded Civ3 again, which I'am deeply regretting as the game has some excellent concepts. Once again I remind you that as a player I have never used the tactics displayed by the AI civs in any civilization game whether Civ2 or CtP2 (which is certainly the reason why I have never played at higher levels).

About the length of the turns, almost all the civilization like games yield strange results because the turns are several years long, I think it can't be avoided and I don't complain about it.

The tabletop wargames and boardgames I'am playing :

World in Flames
Rome vs. Carthage
We the people
World war One
Across five aprils
Imperium Romanum II
Twilight Imperium
Age of Renaissance
Advanced Civilization
Tank leader

and some others...

[Tamerlin]

Re: civ3 et al

Originally posted by lorddread


I like CTP better than civ2

So do I, just add a 2 after CtP and a 3 after civ.

[Austin]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Hi everybody,

Hi Doctor Nick!

The tabletop wargames and boardgames I'am playing :

World in Flames
Rome vs. Carthage
We the people
World war One
Across five aprils
Imperium Romanum II
Twilight Imperium
Age of Renaissance
Advanced Civilization
Tank leader

and some others...

Wholy Crap Simultaneously!

Which version(s) of World in Flames are you playing?

I've always been very fond of Tank Leader, except that whenever I play the Russians I can never, ever make a spotting roll. It got so bad the other guys started handing me carrots as a joke whenever I played the Russians. No matter where I was or who I played against, my Russians couldn't spot anything.

Austin

[Barchan]

Originally posted by Austin
Hi Doctor Nick!

[lorddread]

civ3 et al

Originally posted by Tamerlin


So do I, just add a 2 after CtP and a 3 after civ.

I just can't get into CTP2. I actually like civ3 better than CTP2

[Tamerlin]

Doctor Nick !

I suppose it's a private joke, could someone explain this to the poor ignorant Tamerlin.

Lorddread : I understand you prefer CtP rather than CtP2. Although they have a common base, the two games are actually very different. I have tried CtP and though the game developped interesting concepts I was disappointed. On the opposite side, I really appreciate CtP2. These games are so different I plan to give CtP a second chance with the appropriate Apolyton Pack.

About the wargames, these are the wargames and boardgames I have regularly practiced over the last years though I have played and tested other ones (SPI's Battle for Germany is a simple and wonderful wargame). Tank Leader is a great game with innovative features although the die are sometimes too important, the german units and cards are also oftenly greatly overestimated (a common trait of many american games).

About World in Flames : we are playing with the latest deluxe edition with the latest rules available on ADG's site.

We don't use :
Carriers in Flames
Ships in Flames (adds too many counters for the same result)
Planes in Flames (managing pilots in a grand strategy game is like bothering about movement in ennemy territory in a grand strategical computer game... )

I plan to test a french game called "La Grande Guerre" (The Great War) which is considered (at least in France) as the ultimate multiplayer strategy game (a bit like WiF) on the first world war. This game is published by Azure Wish Edition which is the french company behind the tabletop boardgame Europa Universalis from which have been designed the PC games of the same name.

[lorddread]

Counters

Originally posted by Tamerlin
About the wargames, these are the wargames and boardgames I have regularly practiced over the last years though I have played and tested other ones (SPI's Battle for Germany is a simple and wonderful wargame). Tank Leader is a great game with innovative features although the die are sometimes too important, the german units and cards are also oftenly greatly overestimated (a common trait of many american games).

About World in Flames : we are playing with the latest deluxe edition with the latest rules available on ADG's site.

We don't use :
Carriers in Flames
Ships in Flames (adds too many counters for the same result)
Planes in Flames (managing pilots in a grand strategy game is like bothering about movement in ennemy territory in a grand strategical computer game... )

If you find it, take a look at Operation Barbarossa. It had the most counters of any wargame. The original game came with almost 3000 counters. Of course it covered the entire map of Germany-Russia. It took forever to play. Playing Germany, I have won almost everytime I play it.

[Tamerlin]

Re: Counters

Originally posted by lorddread
If you find it, take a look at Operation Barbarossa. It had the most counters of any wargame. The original game came with almost 3000 counters. Of course it covered the entire map of Germany-Russia. It took forever to play. Playing Germany, I have won almost everytime I play it.

I don't know this game but I will ask some questions about it to my favorite hobby store holders the next time I visit them.

But who is Doctor Nick !

[lorddread]

IS there a doctor in the house?

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I don't know this game but I will ask some questions about it to my favorite hobby store holders the next time I visit them.

But who is Doctor Nick !

No clue dude!

[Jon Shafer]

My concerns:

Mostly, the game was 'dumbed-down' for mass appeal and the strengthening of the AI (this includes maintainance, trade, military, etc.).

Roads in enemy territory, yadda yadda yadda.

Railroads giving infinite movement.

Rise and fall of empires (hard to impliment in this type of game though, without changing too many things).

That's about it. Of course, the 'dumbed-down' issue includes many things, but there's no point in arguing about them (see my Resource thread for one in particular), so I won't. Other than that, the game is great, and I commend Firaxis for an excellent job in such a short time.

[Barchan]

Re: Re: Counters

Originally posted by Tamerlin

But who is Doctor Nick !

Why, it's doctor Nick Riviera, the hoplessly incompetent yet strangely popular doctor from The Simpsons. A few posts back, someone started their post with "Hi everybody!", which is Dr. Nick's "catch phrase" on the show. He always walks into a room and says "Hi everybody!" and the whole crowd shouts back "Hi, Dr. Nick!" Thus, the joke.

[dexters]

HI DR. NICK!

[Tamerlin]

Hi Dexters,

It's time to find another way to introduce my post when I reply for the first time to a new thread.

Lorddread : I think you already know the games I'am about to talk but if you are looking for simple and fun wargames playable in an afternoon you should look at World War I and Battle for Germany both designed by SPI and reissued by Decision Games. They are not "monster" games like WiF or Operation Barbarossa but they are very refreshing.
By the way, isn't Operation Barbarossa a GMT game published a few years ago ?

Trip : you are right, even if Civ3 has some flaws you are aware of what is really important is that you enjoy this new game. I must admit this is one of the few threads some can freely talk about the merits and flaws of Civ3 without someone flaming those who have a different opinion. CtP1&2 have even been stated without provoking any violent reaction.
In my own opinion, the merits (and they are not few) of Civ3 does not balance the faults I have already talked about earlier in this thread. I suppose the disappointment is as high as were my expectations, I think Civ3 is an excellent game but that it simply does not suit to my taste and my way of playing (I know, I have already said this earlier...).

Doctor Nick

[lorddread]

Barbarossa

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Hi Dexters,

It's time to find another way to introduce my post when I reply for the first time to a new thread.

Lorddread : I think you already know the games I'am about to talk but if you are looking for simple and fun wargames playable in an afternoon you should look at World War I and Battle for Germany both designed by SPI and reissued by Decision Games. They are not "monster" games like WiF or Operation Barbarossa but they are very refreshing.
By the way, isn't Operation Barbarossa a GMT game published a few years ago ?

Don't know if it is a GMT game, but it came out in the late 80's probably around 87-88.